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TOPIC: Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws

Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 3 days ago #1

There are proposed changes to the By-Laws to be voted on at the 2019 AGM. The By-laws posted on the website are Version 3.0, which is outdated, however Version 4.0 had very minor changes.

There are changes and deletions which should be reviewed before the membership can vote to accept them. All changes are in RED. Deletions have a strikethrough. All changes/additions are italicized.

I encourage everyone to look at the proposed changes (Version 5.0) before the Rally. In particular, please look at 5.1.3. It infers that Non-Attendees of the National Rally (AGM) will not have a vote, and the Board of Directors will decide if they will let you vote. Considering the amount of Rally attendees is limited by the ROG, and the membership role being the majority - a small group of members will decide the direction of the ROG and the majority will have no say-so. I hope this is not the case.

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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 2 days ago #2

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I totally disagree that only members that attend the Rally have a vote. Due to the nation wide spread of the members and limits to rally attendance ALL MEMBERS in good standing must be allowed to vote. In my humble opinion, the ROG must be managed by the board, but constitution changes approved by the majority of the membership. Hope that I have stated this correctly.

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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 2 days ago #3

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Andy and the board of directors of the ROG:

What say you about this??

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Jim & Mary Butters, Maggie (furry kiddo)
2013 Redwood 36RL
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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 2 days ago #4

I guess I am confused?? My last notes from Andy were from 5/6/19 with the FINAL DRAFT and it does not look like that version, nor does it limit the voting>?

Also, an email to me on 5/11/19 which includes an ONLINE ballot to cast your vote and send it back to the President . .

Joe

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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 2 days ago #5

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SandK wrote: There are proposed changes to the By-Laws to be voted on at the 2019 AGM. The By-laws posted on the website are Version 3.0, which is outdated, however Version 4.0 had very minor changes.

There are changes and deletions which should be reviewed before the membership can vote to accept them. All changes are in RED. Deletions have a strikethrough. All changes/additions are italicized.

I encourage everyone to look at the proposed changes (Version 5.0) before the Rally. In particular, please look at 5.1.3. It infers that Non-Attendees of the National Rally (AGM) will not have a vote, and the Board of Directors will decide if they will let you vote. Considering the amount of Rally attendees is limited by the ROG, and the membership role being the majority - a small group of members will decide the direction of the ROG and the majority will have no say-so. I hope this is not the case.

If the attachment does not work, please p/m me and I will e-mail you the document.


Ladies & Gentlemen,

Please note that the marked up copy attached to the first post in this thread is not a controlled copy of either the current or proposed new By-Laws. Therefore, I am unable to verify the accuracy of the content.

A copy of the proposed new By-Laws were included with the notice of AGM issued by Patti. If any ROG member wishes to receive a copy of the current By-Laws (version 4) and/or the proposed new By-Laws (version 5.0.C) please drop me an email at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and I will send the official and controlled documents you request.

In reviewing the By-Laws, we determined that they were both bloated and not overly appropriate for what the ROG is - a small niche market owners group. When I started the project my first decision was how to best format the document. Since we were implementing some significant changes, I found a "marked-up" document too confusing and difficult to track. I found opening both documents with a split screen to be more conducive to comparing versions.

The marked up copy has not been reviewed or authenticated by myself or any member of the Board of Directors, so I have no ability to determine the accuracy of the content. As previously noted I will send the official copies of both documents upon request.
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Andy & Judi, Canines - Kona & Bella
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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 2 days ago #6

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Jim and Mary wrote: Andy and the board of directors of the ROG:

What say you about this??


Jim,

As per my previous post, when re-writing the By-Laws, I did not find a marked up copy conducive to easily comparing versions.

When we started the ROG, we had visions of grandeur of growing to match some of the larger RV clubs. I wrote the initial By-Laws based on this vision. In reality, at least in the short/medium term, we are a small niche market owners group, but our bloated By-laws were more appropriate for FMCA. The By-laws also drove a number of complex requirements for the membership side of the website that would require expensive custom programming.

Rather than hire a web designer, Paul & I are currently developing a basic new website, so we reviewed the By-Laws to both remove bloat and simplify member management. Therefore, we elected to conduct an entire re-write, permitting options for the Board, as technology and circumstances change. The ROG is entirely operated by volunteers, which are in short supply, and changing By-Laws takes extensive resources, so we have endeavoured to accommodate many options for the immediate future, without having to amend the By-Laws again.

With respect to the issue raised by Shelley, who only quoted a single article 5.1.3. I suggest members should consider the document as a whole and review all applicable articles, before making an interpretation of the intent.

In response to Shelley's interpretation and inference, I provide the following quotes from the documents and applicable comments.

Section 2.4 Rights of Members:
- 2.4.1 All Members have the right to attend any meeting, participate in any discussion, and receive all publications.
-2.4.2 The Charter and Regular Members, who are in good standing, have the right to one vote per membership number.

This clearly states that every Charter/Regular member in good standing has the right to vote. Therefore, my interpretation is this places an onus on the Board to ensure that each Charter/Regular member has the ability to vote at the AGM. Doesn't say how, it only states the Board must provide the opportunity.

Section 5.1.3
Existing By-Laws (Version 4.0) - Proxy votes and mail-in ballots are acceptable at any AGM/EGM.

As written this was a challenging requirement to manage and I note we have not complied with mail-in ballots since the first AGM. Even if the technology changed, or even every Charter/Regular member attended the AGM, we would still have to provide proxy/mail-in ballots.

Proposed By-Laws (Version 5.0.C) - The Board of Directors shall determine what, if any, voting is available for non-attendees.

This provides flexibility for the Board to determine how to provide non-AGM attending Charter/Regular members the vote they are obligated to provide in Article 2.4.2. In the unlikely event every voting member attended, it also provides the option on not wasting resources by providing proxy ballots, when not required.

While we have endeavoured to severely reduce the bloat, the proposed By-Laws are still a complex document and in many places multiple articles need to be considered to get an accurate interpretation.
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Andy & Judi, Canines - Kona & Bella
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2016 F350 DRW
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President - ROG

Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 1 day ago #7

Andy,
Thank you for your explanation. Would you mind explaining exactly what a member does if they would like to vote and are not able to attend the rally.

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George & Lisa

Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 1 day ago #8

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PricelessRVAdventures wrote: Andy,
Thank you for your explanation. Would you mind explaining exactly what a member does if they would like to vote and are not able to attend the rally.


Thanks Lisa,

Patti posted the information and voting form with the notice of AGM. Here is the link

redwoodrvowners.com/index.php?option=com...0&id=2448&Itemid=159
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Andy & Judi, Canines - Kona & Bella
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2013 RW 36FL
2016 F350 DRW
Cruise & RV Blog: www.andyandjudi.com
President - ROG

Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 1 day ago #9

Thanks ALL... . ..

I thought I was loosing my mind... or whats left of it anyway..

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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 1 day ago #10


"Please note that the marked up copy attached to the first post in this thread is not a controlled copy of either the current or proposed new By-Laws. Therefore, I am unable to verify the accuracy of the content.

A copy of the proposed new By-Laws were included with the notice of AGM issued by Patti. If any ROG member wishes to receive a copy of the current By-Laws (version 4) and/or the proposed new By-Laws (version 5.0.C) please drop me an email at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and I will send the official and controlled documents you request.

In reviewing the By-Laws, we determined that they were both bloated and not overly appropriate for what the ROG is - a small niche market owners group. When I started the project my first decision was how to best format the document. Since we were implementing some significant changes, I found a "marked-up" document too confusing and difficult to track. I found opening both documents with a split screen to be more conducive to comparing versions.

The marked up copy has not been reviewed or authenticated by myself or any member of the Board of Directors, so I have no ability to determine the accuracy of the content. As previously noted I will send the official copies of both documents upon request".


Andy,
As you know from our discussion thru e-mails - I had asked for the current version (4.0) of the By-Laws; which you sent me, and I compared it to the version that Patti had posted. I even offered to send you the "marked up copy" of the By-Laws before posting it to the Forum. My words: " I will send you a copy when I am done as a courtesy to check for accuracy - but intend to post it to the forum for easier comparison to members"; and your response was: "Therefore, being a complete re-write, for me, a marked up copy provides no benefit. However, please feel free to post a marked up copy on the forum."

I spent a lot of time merging the two documents and my sole intent was to make it easier for the members to compare the two documents before voting for/against the changes. You had the opportunity to review it and "authenticate/verify it for accuracy", and you declined the offer, and encouraged me to post it to the Forum.

There were significant changes to the By-Laws and I wanted to help the members have the comparison. I'm going to leave it at that.

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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 1 day ago #11

ford truck guy wrote: I guess I am confused?? My last notes from Andy were from 5/6/19 with the FINAL DRAFT and it does not look like that version, nor does it limit the voting>?

Also, an email to me on 5/11/19 which includes an ONLINE ballot to cast your vote and send it back to the President . .

Joe


What e-mail? Was that just for Board members? I did not receive an e-mail. Can you clarify Joe?

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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 1 day ago #12

Oriana wrote:

PricelessRVAdventures wrote: Andy,
Thank you for your explanation. Would you mind explaining exactly what a member does if they would like to vote and are not able to attend the rally.


Thanks Lisa,

Patti posted the information and voting form with the notice of AGM. Here is the link

redwoodrvowners.com/index.php?option=com...0&id=2448&Itemid=159


If you do not frequent the Forum, you may not see the notice, nor would you know from the Topic title that the form for voting is buried within the post.

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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 1 day ago #13

SandK wrote:

ford truck guy wrote: I guess I am confused?? My last notes from Andy were from 5/6/19 with the FINAL DRAFT and it does not look like that version, nor does it limit the voting>?

Also, an email to me on 5/11/19 which includes an ONLINE ballot to cast your vote and send it back to the President . .

Joe


What e-mail? Was that just for Board members? I did not receive an e-mail. Can you clarify Joe?


I will clarify, but getting ready to jump on a plane so it will have to be later tonight. My apologies....

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Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 1 day ago #14

Shelly
as you know being one of our inception board of directors that got this ball rolling as you know there has been a lot of changes I really appreciate the time and effort you all do to keep this vision going. Times are changing and it is getting harder for people to expend their time volunteering in their busy lives. All the people that are on the board as volunteers are trying their best to do what is right for the group as a whole. As far as the Bylaws they are trying to simplify it for everyone. I have never seen anything yet that will not allow the group of Redwood paying members to not have a say in how this organization is operated if they don't show up for the rally. If that were to happen I would be long gone We have a major challenge to get members to get on board and help us grow this thing
Thank you for your Time and passion in getting us to where were today
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Woody

Proposed changes to ROG By-Laws 1 week 14 hours ago #15

This is what i found in a hurry.... Once I get back from my business trip I can look further... This is the post that included the online voting form and instructions..

clicky
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