After last weekends Texas Rally in Canton, Texas, I had a chance to discuss with many of you information about your electrical surge protector + ... Thank you all for your information. It is cheap insurance to protect ALL of your electronics on board.
Today, I placed the order with Techno RV for the hard-wired EMS HW50C by Progressive Industries. Eric is very personable to work with and he has advised that this unit will work on 50A, 30A and 15A as long as you use the proper adapter(s). This device has to detect both legs before it will activate.
Once it arrives, I'll try to detail the installation. I have purchased the hard-wired unit instead of the portable unit. It will be installed in the garage. From there, I'll mount (1) remote display in the control cabinet for indoor monitoring. I'll be mounting the 2nd remote display at the electrical connector at the rear of the coach. It is not waterproof. I'll be installing in a clear plastic box. The extra length cable has to be ordered directly from Progressive Electronics. Eric could not supply that.
Total cost from Techno RV for the hard-wired unit and (1) display and the additional display came to $384.99 with free shipping. For those considering the purchase of a unit like this (Hard-Wired or Portable), here is the link:
The extra cord from Progressive (40') runs $1 per foot.
The clear electrical box will be purchased on line from another vendor for $3.99.
I don't think I'll need much more than that.
Like I said, I'll post pics and the results when complete. By the time parts arrive, it will be about 2-3 weeks before I can post the results.
A special thanks to Terry Cooper, Texas RV professor for sharing his knowledge on this electrical device and the importance of protecting your RV equipment! For those that do not yet know him, he is a tremendous asset to the RV community. :woohoo::woohoo:
I installed the same unit on our Redwood and went to the extra trouble to place the digital readout in the control cabinet by the entry door. (generator control, slideout switches, etc) Proved very helpful this winter to watch during high electrical demand on the park's electrical utility. You may want to consider that. It was a royal pain to install, but worth it in the long run.
I'm sort of a conservative and do a lot of research and listen to a lot of others before making that sort of decision. I did not realize the problems parks have. It's more wide spread apparently than you would think.
I'm doing the same by placing 2 units. 1 will be in the control cabinet. 1 outside at the plug.
If your volts drop too low or go too high, you can burn a lot of equipment up. It's cheap insurance.
I protect my equipment at home. Why should I not do the same for the RV?
Some of the older RV parks in Mesa were designed in the 60's and 70's when RV's topped out with 30A services. Now many of the newer MH and 5th wheels have 50A services, and lots of the newer park models have 100A and 200A services, on this old equipment. Our Line 2 voltage would drop to 104V during peak demand at 7-8 AM when everyone got up and turned their heat on. So we would have to watch what appliances on which line we used until it warmed up a bit and people turned off their electric heaters.
Yesterday and today, everything arrived for the installation of the hard-wired Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C Surge protector from Techno RV. I'm not advocating one company over another. That will be for you to decide. However, I will say that they have delivered as promised and at a fair price. Now for the install...
It should be noted that this product advertises a very fast "protection" response rate of <1ns (nano-second)...If you want to read on nanoseconds, feel free, but from what I read, electricity can travel on/in a copper wire 11.8" in a nanosecond. The math will back that up. So having said that, if this reacts in 1 ns, then all of the wiring inside the box should fried before it can get through.
It does have an allowance range (in volts) of 104-132. That is 13.3% on the low side or 10.5% on the high side. Typical electrical codes and equipment ratings allow for 10% either way. A couple of volts here or there when you hit the high or low probably won't make that much of a difference anyway...
On the surge side, you're protected to 88,000A surge current and 3,580 Joules rating. Enough said about that. Unless you take a direct lightning strike, we should good.
It's a pretty straight forward installation. I'll take pics and post installation when it's done.
The unit does offer a lifetime warranty (for at least as long as the company stays in business anyway). Tech support is 7 days a week. I will say that Anthony answered every question I had by email within minutes. And it was usually late evening or weekend. That is exceptional customer service by anybody's book.
If you have the generator prep package, you can remove the feed wires from the transfer switch without cutting the wire shorter, and just use short pieces from the EMS to the transfer switch.
Well....I finally had some time to install this EMS (Electrical Management System) unit...
It was easy, easy but a bit time consuming based upon where the unit is now mounted.
Be sure to disconnect shore power and the batteries prior to starting this project. Have a couple of good flashlights handy to perform the work.
Total install time: 3.5 Hours (I did not get in a hurry)...Pics located at the bottom...
Step 1) Removed all of the garage items. It's amazing how much junk the trunk will actually hold.
Step 2) Removed the panel covers (2 out of 3) to get access to the basement.
Step 3) Had to run down to Lowes to get a small piece of wood to mount the EMS to ($3.02), 8' of 6/3 w/ground NMB Romex ($22.32), and some tie-wraps ($2.48) and tax for a total of $30.12.
Step 4) Mounted the EMS onto the pre-cut piece of wood 17.5" long.
Step 5) Pre-Wired the LOAD side of the EMS. The CT's (Current Sensors) have to go on in one direction only. There is a small "arrow" on the CT's and they must be installed toward the contactor.
Step 6) Disconnected the Main Feed Wires inside the Panel.
Step 7) Climbed into the tiny basement in nearly the fetal position to get access to the back side of the Panel and had to loosen the Romex connector in order to pull the Main Feed Wires back into the basement.
Step 8) Installed the EMS to the aluminum uprights with 4 self-tapping screws.
Step 9) Routed the Main Feed Panel LINE Side wires into the EMS and terminated.
Step 10) Routed the LOAD side wires from the EMS (previously pre-wired) back into the Panel.
Step 11) Crawled, wiggled and shimmied back out of the basement to go terminate the Panel.
Step 12) Removed the Main Control Panel located in the entry closet.
Step 13) Fished a wire down the inside closet to the basement.
Step 14) Followed by pulling the control wires to the basement.
Step 15) Connected the control wire (which resembles a telephone wire although it is NOT) to the EMS.
Step 16) Mounted the new Remote Display and Display Selector Switch in the Control Cabinet.
Step 17) Drilled (2) 3/8" holes in the cabinet to pull the control wires through.
Step 18) Plugged in the control wires into the new Remote Display and Display Selector Switch.
Step 19) Reconnect the batteries.
Step 20) Re-Connect to shore power.
Step 21) Select the display to read (Display 1 or 2). For now, I have not installed the 2nd remote display. I have purchased the 2nd unit and I have pulled a spare wire from the Control Panel to the Basement in advance of the installation. But I have not yet received the 40' remote cable I ordered directly from the manufacturer. It will come soon and I will post the pics at that time. I'll likely have to remove the belly corplast in order to route this cable to the back where the electrical feed connection is located.
Upon installation, I watched the initial readings. With nothing on basically, the meter will provide you with several readings.
1) The LINE Voltage to LINE 1
2) The Amps to LINE 1
3) HERTZ
4) The LINE Voltage to LINE 2
5) The Amps to LINE 2
6) Error Codes (which should be E0)
Our RV is in storage and we are connected to shore power via a small 16 gauge extension cord. It's plenty big for the battery charger to work.
Our initial readings were 120 volts on each LINE and basically with the charger on, we received a 7A reading on LINE 2. Nothing on LINE 1.
Then, we turned on some lights. That added 3 Amps and the voltage dropped to 117V.
Then, we added a few more lights. That added another 3 Amps and the voltage again dropped to 114V.
Then, because the DW wanted heat on a 70 degree day, the Amps went to 17 and the volts dropped to 102. It was at that point the EMS kicked in and dropped out the RV electrical. IT WORKED! After this, I connected a larger 12 gauge extension cord and performed the same experiment. The volts only dropped to 108 and the EMS stayed connected. So, we turned off the lights and turned on the TV. It appears that the TV is on LINE 1 and it draws 1 Amp. This has now become a great way to monitor AMP Load in the RV. The display inside lets us know our limits and we can turn on and off devices based on load.
One thing I learned after reading the manual (who reads the manual BEFORE installing the unit anyway :))....I need to go back and change the relay settings from 15 seconds (set by the factory) to 136 seconds. You have a choice of either setting. The reason I need to change this setting is that when you run the A/C (or maybe another appliance), you cannot have a short-cycling of the A/C. The time delay needs to be set for 136 seconds to allow the A/C refrigerate head pressure to drop. Otherwise, you could short-cycle the compressor and cause permanent damage.
On a separate note, we chose the Hard-Wired unit to prevent theft. These unit are not cheap ($400 + or -).. You can opt for the portable unit and save a lot of work. It can be plugged into the shore power pedestal and work like a champ. We just appreciate that this unit can be better protected inside the RV. It's your choice. But having installed this unit and "testing" it, this is definitely worth the investment. The voltage operating range is 104 to 132 Volts. This particular unit (HW50C) is good for 50 Amps. It is good for 5-mode Surge Protection of 3,580Joules and 88,000 Amps of surge current in less than 1 nano-second. It also has reverse polarity protection, open neutral protection, open ground protection, AC frequency protection and accidental 240V protection. In other words, this is CHEAP insurance and may save your rig severe electrical damage. I am a very conservative individual who researches a lot of information before investing in equipment. As an electrician myself, this is definitely worth spending the money on. It does not have to be this particular unit. But get something to protect your rig. I ordered from RVTechno. There are other locations. But at the time, they had the best price and they shipped promptly.
Happy Trails.
Thanks for the detailed post. I installed the same EMS on our 38RL. My question based on "you could short-cycle the compressor and cause permanent damage"; is it written anywhere what the minimum safe voltage and amps are for the AC and or residential fridge? Not an electrician so not sure if the amps matter.
We were at a park in Murphy NC over Memorial Day weekend and I checked the voltage and it was down to 107. We were in the shade and out most of the day so I turned off the AC as I wasn't sure if that low of voltage would damage the unit. I noticed no one else seemed to care and they left everything on. Thanks in advance.
Usually, a 10% voltage drop is acceptable. Therefore, 10% of 120v equals a 12 v drop before damage can begin. 108v should be your limit...
For wire, outdoor temperatures can have an effect on wire. But if it were cold outside, you probably would not be concerned with A/C...
DISTANCE is usually the enemy. For every 200', the wire size has to be increased due to voltage drops.
Another factor is loose connections usually at the breaker or shore power connection point. You may want to move closer to the distribution electrical point for the campground or to another spot that may have connections that are not worn out.
Amps is a unit of heat. Higher amps on smaller wire results in additional heat. Your wiring is designed to handle amps (heat).
A typical #12 Romex is rated for 20 amps. The code allows for only an 80% load factor so a #12 wire is good for 18 amps.
The breaker works on heat (thermal) in cases of overload. It also works on magnetic trip settings for short circuits. GFI's work differently in that they sense load imbalance between the hot and neutral but that won't be discussed here.
So, having said this...the lower the voltage the higher the amperage. Your putting more heat on any wiring and equipment. Avoid anything under 108 volts except for lighting circuits. Although, come to think of it, if you are using LED'S, they hate voltage fluctuations. That's yet another reason to stay with incandescents with the G4 bases....
Usually, a 10% voltage drop is acceptable. Therefore, 10% of 120v equals a 12 v drop before damage can begin. 108v should be your limit...
For wire, outdoor temperatures can have an effect on wire. But if it were cold outside, you probably would not be concerned with A/C...
DISTANCE is usually the enemy. For every 200', the wire size has to be increased due to voltage drops.
Another factor is loose connections usually at the breaker or shore power connection point. You may want to move closer to the distribution electrical point for the campground or to another spot that may have connections that are not worn out.
Amps is a unit of heat. Higher amps on smaller wire results in additional heat. Your wiring is designed to handle amps (heat).
A typical #12 Romex is rated for 20 amps. The code allows for only an 80% load factor so a #12 wire is good for 18 amps.
The breaker works on heat (thermal) in cases of overload. It also works on magnetic trip settings for short circuits. GFI's work differently in that they sense load imbalance between the hot and neutral but that won't be discussed here.
So, having said this...the lower the voltage the higher the amperage. Your putting more heat on any wiring and equipment. Avoid anything under 108 volts except for lighting circuits. Although, come to think of it, if you are using LED'S, they hate voltage fluctuations. That's yet another reason to stay with incandescents with the G4 bases....
I should clarify the amps....amps is current flow. The results are heat...
I greatly appreciate all this information. I am going to watch it as I go forward and if it is close shut things down if possible.
Keith
If you don't have one, I would strongly recommend a Progressive Surge Protector. It automatically detects low voltage, high voltage, and many other issues before they cause damage to your rig. It only takes nano-seconds. In fact, electricity travels 11" per nanosecond. So, you personally won't have time to react before everything is fried.
Thanks that was my first mod to the unit.
So, having said this...the lower the voltage the higher the amperage. Your putting more heat on any wiring and equipment. Avoid anything under 108 volts except for lighting circuits. Although, come to think of it, if you are using LED'S, they hate voltage fluctuations. That's yet another reason to stay with incandescents with the G4 bases....
The lights in the RW are 12VDC, really not a reason to stay with incandescents.
Thanks for the great right up on your install. I believe 80% of 20 amperes is 16 amperes instead of 18.
